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Assistant Crown Attorney Jennifer Moser continued to press Nathaniel Veltman on the stand Wednesday during his cross-examination.
Moser began the day asking about his work history. Veltman said he believed he was a good employee, describing himself as "driven," adding that he would often stay late if asked by his managers. When Moser asked how much he made Veltman said it could be anywhere from $1,300-1,600 every two weeks.
Moser then brought up his purchases in the months leading up to his June 2021 arrest; the bulletproof vest, helmet, and Dodge Ram pickup truck and suggested that he'd taken out a $36,000 loan for the truck because he had no intention of paying it back.
Veltman disagreed, saying that he did intend to repay the loan as he was back at work full time. "I figured if COVID was going to on for awhile - I'd be able to pay it off pretty quickly," he said.
Moser then questioned Veltman about the death of his grandmother (she was actually his great-grandmother). Veltman had previously testified that she was like a mother figure to him and that seeing her dead body was one of the triggers that caused him to buy and consume psilocybin (magic mushrooms) the day before the deaths of the Afzaal family on June 6, 2021.
She asked him why he would ingest magic mushrooms when his last experience with the drug was described as "agony."
She pressed further, suggesting that he was ready to act at that time because his grandmother was now dead and he wouldn't disappoint her and that he took the drugs, not because he was sad about her passing, but as one last time to get high and have a good time before he committed an act of violence.
Veltman denied that. He maintained that he took the mushrooms out of grief and because he wanted to "do something different" and not spend another night on the internet.
"I wanted to knock myself into oblivion," Veltman said.
Moser jumped forward to the morning of June 5, 2021. She asked Veltman about a piece of paper found by police that measured the speed and distance necessary for a vehicle to kill a pedestrian versus injure them.
Veltman admitted that he is the one who wrote out the percentages.
"This was you clearly planning to kill pedestrians with your vehicle Mr. Veltman?" Moser asked.
Veltman said it wasn't planning, he was just "actively thinking" about using his truck as a weapon.
"This is deliberation," Moser replied.
The next area of questioning concerned Veltman's June 5, 2021 trip to Toronto.
Moser asked if he was planning on killing someone that day, during that trip.
He responded that he wasn't planning to kill anyone, just to satisfy the urge he had to "do something in the future."
Moser then asked, if he wasn't going to kill someone why was he wearing his bulletproof vest and helmet?
He said that he "wore [them] all the time" and that he was "obsessed with [them]."
Moser suggested that he put them on because he believed he was "going to war."
He denied it.
Veltman already admitted in front of the jury that during that trip he had the urge to run down a group of Muslim people he'd seen on the street, but he managed to stop himself.
Moser suggested that he didn't run into the group because there were no children present.
"No," Veltman denied.
Veltman seemed flustered at this point. He said that he was panicked and struggling with those thoughts.
Moser asked if he was struggling, why didn't he turn himself into police or the hospital or even talk to a friend at work the next day?
"I can't give a good answer to why I didn't ask for help," Veltman said.
On June 6, 2021, Veltman worked an 8.5 hour shift and testified previously that he saw another group of Muslim people that he had to fight the urge to run down. "My mind was such a mess," he said.
Moser said that he went straight back into researching and watching videos of terrorist acts and suggested that he was "getting ready to commit your own terrorist attack."
She then added that she believed that he put the two USBs containing his manifesto out in the open for police to find, before leaving to kill someone.
"That's ridiculous," Veltman lashed out. "I didn't stage the apartment," he added.
Moser then questioned Veltman about when he left his apartment on June 6. She asked why he would drive to a restaurant to get food, when there were many within walking distance of his home and knowing that he was a danger to people.
Veltman said that he didn't think he was a danger at the time.
Moser again pointed to the research he'd done to know how fast he needed to drive to kill and the murderous urges he said he'd been struggling with.
"You decided to go out and find Muslims to kill on June 6, 2021," she said.
Veltman said it was in no way a firm plan, that him hurting someone was only a "possibility".
Moser described the moment he saw the Afzaal family as him finding his target. "All your pent up rage had found its mark," she added.
Veltman responded that he didn't look at it that way.
He said he was focused on the "middle-aged woman" and the "bearded man" and that while he remembers putting "the pedal to the metal" he tried to turn at the last minute to avoid the family.
Moser said that was false. She said that they reason he turned slightly to the left so he could hit every member of the family.
She noted that he was an experienced driver and to avoid hitting something he would have tried to hit the brakes. "You do not touch the brake at all," she said of the seconds before he hit the Afzaals.
"You did this because it is exactly what you wanted to do Mr. Veltman," Moser said.
Moser than changed topics to Veltman's behaviour during his arrest. She mentioned testimony about him smiling and laughing and how he demanded the taxi driver in the Cherryhill Mall parking lot take a video.
"I don't recall smiling, but it's probably true," Veltman said. He explained his reactions as a "short-lived period of hysteria."
Moser then brought up how Veltman flashed the 'ok' symbol at an officer and that it was a white supremacist symbol.
Veltman said that he did know that it racist symbol but it was only given in response to an officer who was shouting at him and calling him derogatory names.
Moser mentioned that Benton Tarrant, the New Zealand mass shooter, had used the same symbol in court and alleged that Veltman used it as an act of solidarity.
"This was a continuation of the plan all along," Moser said. "To continue the message you wanted to send to the world of intimidation," she added.
Veltman replied that there was no message.
Moser then turned to Veltman's interviews with London Police Detective Micah Bordeau. She told the jury that despite Veltman claiming that he was in a panicked state during his interviews he seemed calm and relaxed. The Crown then played the video of him answering Det. Bordeau's questions leaning back in his chair, with his hands behind his head, and legs stretched out.
"I've always been very good and hiding what's really going on," Veltman said.
While going through his interviews point-by-point, Veltman said on the stand that all of the things he said then were "ridiculous" or him trying to come up with justifications for possibly having killed a child.
He added that saying that he would be an inspiration for people in the UK was "nonsense".
"You said exactly what you were thinking because that is exactly what the truth is," Moser countered.
"It was important to tell the police because it was the final step of your plan," she said.
"If you didn't tell the police, the world wouldn't know," she noted.
Veltman again denied having a plan.
Moser pointed out when Veltman said in the interview that he didn't regret what he'd done and that it "wasn't cowardly to kill a child" saying that it was hard to believe he was "horrified at the thought that he might have killed a child."
Veltman told the jury that he was shocked and horrified by what he had done but he was still searching for any justification he could come up with. "I didn't want to regret it," he said.
"Mr. Veltman, even today, do you recognize that you did kill a child? You killed a 15-year-old girl," Moser stated at one point.
"Yes, I do know that," Veltman admitted.
Moser then pointed out that only hours after the attack Veltman was using the past tense when talking about his life; saying that he "worked" at the egg processing plant and "lived" at Covent Market Place instead of "I work" and "I live".
"Mr. Veltman, I'm going to suggest you had already thought about the consequences of your actions before you killed the Afzaal family," she said.
Veltman denied again that he'd planned the attack.
Court was then adjourned for the day, Moser plans to continue her cross-examination at 10 a.m. Thursday.
Talat Afzaal, 74, her son Salman Afzaal, 46, his wife Madiha Salman, 44, and their daughter Yumnah, 15, were all killed when they were hit by a truck while out for an evening walk on June 6 2021. Their son, who was nine at the time, was the only survivor.
Veltman has pleaded not guilty to four counts of terrorism-motivated first-degree murder and one count of terrorism-motivated attempted murder.